Archive for the ‘Atheist’ tag
Thankful and sad
This is going to be long.
In my home it was wonderful and full of love, joy. My daughter spent a couple of hours making these cute cupcakes with edible turkeys on them. I think cupcakes have replaced Big Macs as her comfort food :)
When it was time to pray she was chomping at the bit and asked to say it this year. That took us all by surprise because she's straddled the line between being an atheist/deist for most of her 21 years. Her prayer was so beautiful we all had tears in our eyes and fought actually crying.
The sad part is because of my mom. She and my 46 year old sister have always been codies, though there's no substance abuse. My sister has been married 4 times, has two beautiful boys, and is probably mentally ill. She's always refused therapy because nothing is ever her issue. She has no friends any more. She manipulates and lies to get whatever she wants and this has going on for about 26 years if not longer. Recently she has run into what probably is her first brick wall. My mom is dedicated to trying to fix it.
My mom hasn't come to see her granddaughter yet (my RAD) after that nasty wreck. She kept saying she was trying but there's been one excuse after another. We insisted on buying her a plane ticket but then she found another excuse. My daughter really wants to see my mom and tell her about this damned addiction. At this point I'm not sure that's a good idea.
My mom and I have never really been close, she was never a mommy to me. Thankfully many of my family members saw it from the start and actually talked with me about it when I was younger. It was liberating and helped me keep putting one foot in front of the other.
That doesn't stop the sadness though. The relationship I have spent years working at with my mom is almost gone. We don't talk about my sister because she's in denial, 70 years old, and it's too much drama for me. In other words, we don't talk about much at all because my sister is her addiction.
I'm using every recovery tool I have towards letting go. I'm going to regular sessions with my therapist and finally cried about it Wednesday. We were talking and all of a sudden I felt it, told him "oh crap here it comes!" I didn't know there was so much pain inside me about my mom. 44 years of it.
This morning I read something: Conflict precedes clarity.
I have my daughter back for today and never had my mom.
I needed to release some pain today about this and am grateful to have a safe place to do it. Thank you SR.
In my home it was wonderful and full of love, joy. My daughter spent a couple of hours making these cute cupcakes with edible turkeys on them. I think cupcakes have replaced Big Macs as her comfort food :)
When it was time to pray she was chomping at the bit and asked to say it this year. That took us all by surprise because she's straddled the line between being an atheist/deist for most of her 21 years. Her prayer was so beautiful we all had tears in our eyes and fought actually crying.
The sad part is because of my mom. She and my 46 year old sister have always been codies, though there's no substance abuse. My sister has been married 4 times, has two beautiful boys, and is probably mentally ill. She's always refused therapy because nothing is ever her issue. She has no friends any more. She manipulates and lies to get whatever she wants and this has going on for about 26 years if not longer. Recently she has run into what probably is her first brick wall. My mom is dedicated to trying to fix it.
My mom hasn't come to see her granddaughter yet (my RAD) after that nasty wreck. She kept saying she was trying but there's been one excuse after another. We insisted on buying her a plane ticket but then she found another excuse. My daughter really wants to see my mom and tell her about this damned addiction. At this point I'm not sure that's a good idea.
My mom and I have never really been close, she was never a mommy to me. Thankfully many of my family members saw it from the start and actually talked with me about it when I was younger. It was liberating and helped me keep putting one foot in front of the other.
That doesn't stop the sadness though. The relationship I have spent years working at with my mom is almost gone. We don't talk about my sister because she's in denial, 70 years old, and it's too much drama for me. In other words, we don't talk about much at all because my sister is her addiction.
I'm using every recovery tool I have towards letting go. I'm going to regular sessions with my therapist and finally cried about it Wednesday. We were talking and all of a sudden I felt it, told him "oh crap here it comes!" I didn't know there was so much pain inside me about my mom. 44 years of it.
This morning I read something: Conflict precedes clarity.
I have my daughter back for today and never had my mom.
I needed to release some pain today about this and am grateful to have a safe place to do it. Thank you SR.
Uninspired by NA….Time for AA?
I was just reading the thread about those that prefer AA to NA, and vice versa, and it got me to thinking.
About 3 weeks ago I spent 5 days in a hospital detox program. This was the first time I ever tried to get help for my addiction (heroin; about 1 and a half years). While in the detox, I also got my first NA/AA experiences. About twice a day, speakers from NA or AA would come and conduct meetings for the patients in detox. I will say that before this, I was very skeptical and negative toward AA/NA and 12 step programs in general. As an atheist, I didn't like the idea of "surrendering to a higher power" and the religious nature of the programs, and didn't like the idea that everyone accepted all of these dogmatic "suggestions" in the NA/AA texts as absolute truth (no one dared question the program or its tenants). Regardless, after actually experiencing an AA/NA meeting instead of just reading about it, my view changed dramatically. I saw the positive aspects of these programs, and knew that I would be attending these meeting after leaving the detox. The speakers were extremely dynamic and wonderful (I heard that these are the ones that often visit the detoxes, rehabs, etc.), and I actually felt like they cared about me, someone they had never even met before! They made me feel like I belonged - Their positivity and kindness was undoubtedly genuine, and I was mightily impressed.
Anyhow, after detox, I began attending these meetings on the outside. I chose NA, as my drug of choice is heroin, and I find their text to be a little more open-minded and realistic. After attending about 5 different NA meetings, I really do not get that feeling that I did during the detox meetings. I was told that the newcomer is the most important person at a meeting, yet on the outside, not even one person has come up and introduced themselves to me! I feel like I'm crashing a party I wasn't invited to; everyone knows each other and I'm invisible. It's like this giant clique, and it seems like everyone has been sober for a very long time (long in my opinion at least, like a year +). When people share, they talk about issues in their lives that you would only know about if you had known this person for quite some time (as most of the people in the meeting do, I assume). I'm really not getting the sense of family, positivity and "we are in this together" that I thought that I would (There are some other, more minor issues about these NA meetings that irk me, but I'll stick to the big picture).
Have I just ran into a crappy handful of NA groups and I should just keep looking? Or should I forgo NA and check out AA? What if I find the same issues in AA? I really want to find an NA group that I can call home; one that is inviting, helpful and consists of caring individuals. Do such meetings exist in NA?
About 3 weeks ago I spent 5 days in a hospital detox program. This was the first time I ever tried to get help for my addiction (heroin; about 1 and a half years). While in the detox, I also got my first NA/AA experiences. About twice a day, speakers from NA or AA would come and conduct meetings for the patients in detox. I will say that before this, I was very skeptical and negative toward AA/NA and 12 step programs in general. As an atheist, I didn't like the idea of "surrendering to a higher power" and the religious nature of the programs, and didn't like the idea that everyone accepted all of these dogmatic "suggestions" in the NA/AA texts as absolute truth (no one dared question the program or its tenants). Regardless, after actually experiencing an AA/NA meeting instead of just reading about it, my view changed dramatically. I saw the positive aspects of these programs, and knew that I would be attending these meeting after leaving the detox. The speakers were extremely dynamic and wonderful (I heard that these are the ones that often visit the detoxes, rehabs, etc.), and I actually felt like they cared about me, someone they had never even met before! They made me feel like I belonged - Their positivity and kindness was undoubtedly genuine, and I was mightily impressed.
Anyhow, after detox, I began attending these meetings on the outside. I chose NA, as my drug of choice is heroin, and I find their text to be a little more open-minded and realistic. After attending about 5 different NA meetings, I really do not get that feeling that I did during the detox meetings. I was told that the newcomer is the most important person at a meeting, yet on the outside, not even one person has come up and introduced themselves to me! I feel like I'm crashing a party I wasn't invited to; everyone knows each other and I'm invisible. It's like this giant clique, and it seems like everyone has been sober for a very long time (long in my opinion at least, like a year +). When people share, they talk about issues in their lives that you would only know about if you had known this person for quite some time (as most of the people in the meeting do, I assume). I'm really not getting the sense of family, positivity and "we are in this together" that I thought that I would (There are some other, more minor issues about these NA meetings that irk me, but I'll stick to the big picture).
Have I just ran into a crappy handful of NA groups and I should just keep looking? Or should I forgo NA and check out AA? What if I find the same issues in AA? I really want to find an NA group that I can call home; one that is inviting, helpful and consists of caring individuals. Do such meetings exist in NA?
Annoyed by religious advice?
Does anyone else find themselves a little annoyed by the religious aspect of AA? I guess what really bothers me is all of the religious advice I keep getting about how to stay sober. I know it comes from a good place in the people who give it, but I absolutely cannot relate to it. Okay, something just dawned on me. All of the religious advice reminds me of the advice I was given from all of my ‘religious’ aunts and uncles while growing up. They all lived relatively f*ed up, unhappy lives, and it seemed like their ‘faith’ allowed them to ignore their own responsibility or culpability in creating a dysfunctional environment. Like they were just washing their hands of their own, inherent power over their lives and, in a sense, ‘blaming’ god for all of life’s ups and downs. From an early age, I’ve had very negative beliefs towards religion. So I guess when someone gives me religious advice, I automatically react negatively. I see belief in a religious higher power as more of a mental weakness rather than a strength. I know that this is incredibly judgmental and not coming from the best place in me, but that’s my gut feeling on it.
Subscribing to a higher power just doesnÂ’t make sense to me. ItÂ’s akin to believing in magic or the tooth fairy. IÂ’ve only been to a few AA meetings so far, but I found myself having to bite my tongue in response to much of the advice I was given. I was even met with incredulity when I said that I was an atheist and completely comfortable with that. Then I got into this explanation of string theory and said that if I were to believe in a connection between life forces on the planet, that would be it. I hope that this doesnÂ’t prevent me from going to meetings, because I really do need the social aspect of it. I just wish I could find a more secular meeting in my area.
Subscribing to a higher power just doesnÂ’t make sense to me. ItÂ’s akin to believing in magic or the tooth fairy. IÂ’ve only been to a few AA meetings so far, but I found myself having to bite my tongue in response to much of the advice I was given. I was even met with incredulity when I said that I was an atheist and completely comfortable with that. Then I got into this explanation of string theory and said that if I were to believe in a connection between life forces on the planet, that would be it. I hope that this doesnÂ’t prevent me from going to meetings, because I really do need the social aspect of it. I just wish I could find a more secular meeting in my area.
it’s a lot harder to quit when you are functional
i almost wish i would hit bottom. i haven't lost a job or anything. infact i got promoted this year and consistently get good reviews for my job performance despite the fact that i'm hungover all the time. the only thing suffering is my body, liver function tests are 5 times the normal range but even if i die, i don't have a wife/kids to worry about. mom gets life insurance and life goes on.
i don't believe in AA because i believe that i choose to drink, it's hard not to but it's still my decision to go to the store but this forum has a lot of activity so thats why im posting here. add to that that i'm agnostic and it makes AA almost impossible but i'm considering choosing my higher power to be a lucky rock that i found 15 years ago when i was a kid and scared and it made me feel better. that's not logical at all... is that insane? probably, but so is alcoholism.
are there any other agnostic/atheist people here who have found a higher power that's not spiritual? and if you were a functional alcoholic, what made you stop? this is probably a repost but i'm too tired to search.
i don't believe in AA because i believe that i choose to drink, it's hard not to but it's still my decision to go to the store but this forum has a lot of activity so thats why im posting here. add to that that i'm agnostic and it makes AA almost impossible but i'm considering choosing my higher power to be a lucky rock that i found 15 years ago when i was a kid and scared and it made me feel better. that's not logical at all... is that insane? probably, but so is alcoholism.
are there any other agnostic/atheist people here who have found a higher power that's not spiritual? and if you were a functional alcoholic, what made you stop? this is probably a repost but i'm too tired to search.
New- Need Help- Why can’t I stop at just one?
I am a binge drinker. There I said it. It used to be once or twice a year, now it's turned to every week or two. I go out saying "I'm only having a drink or two." It turns into me puking, and two weeks ago it was in my car while I was driving!! Usually my husband has to come get me. Sometime I drive. This is very, very bad. It's destroying my health, making me depressed, ruining my marriage, and Friday, for the first time, I called into work sick because I was so hungover.
Why am I doing this? Why can't I stick to my original plan? Why does that first drink make me think I'm superman?
Something has to change before I kill myself, kill someone else, end up in jail, end up divorced, or all of the above.
I know by now that the only answer is to stop drinking completely. Clearly, something changes in me after that first drink, and I have given up hoping to control myself. I know what I have to do, I just have to do it.
Has anyone else dealt with this issue? Is there anywhere to turn for help? And please don't turn this topic into one of religion, but I hesitate to go to AA because I am an atheist and they have that whole higher power thing.
Thank you.
Why am I doing this? Why can't I stick to my original plan? Why does that first drink make me think I'm superman?
Something has to change before I kill myself, kill someone else, end up in jail, end up divorced, or all of the above.
I know by now that the only answer is to stop drinking completely. Clearly, something changes in me after that first drink, and I have given up hoping to control myself. I know what I have to do, I just have to do it.
Has anyone else dealt with this issue? Is there anywhere to turn for help? And please don't turn this topic into one of religion, but I hesitate to go to AA because I am an atheist and they have that whole higher power thing.
Thank you.
Continue to speak of Alcoholism
"Continue to speak of alcoholism as a sickness, a fatal malady. Talk about the conditions of body and mind which accompany it. Keep his attention focused mainly on your personal experience. If doctors or psychiatrists have pronounced you incurable, be sure and let him know about it. Explain that many are doomed who never realize their predicament. Doctors who know the truth are rightly loath to tell alcoholic patients the whole story unless it will serve some good purpose, but you may talk to him about the hopelessness of alcoholism, because you offer a solution. You will soon have your friend admitting he has many, if not all, of the traits of the alcoholic. If his own doctor is willing to tell him that he is alcoholic, so much the better. Even though your protege may not have entirely admitted his condition, he has become very curious to know how you got well. Let him ask you that question, if he will. If he does not ask, proceed with the rest of your story. Tell him exactly what happened to you. Stress the spiritual feature freely. If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it emphatic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him. The main thing is that he be willing to believe in a Power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles. "
My Higher Power
I have been asked to repost something in the newcomer's forum that i posted on the Alcoholism 12 step forum. As the higher power thread here has been locked i hope admin don't mind me starting a new one with my thoughts on.
Since i came to AA i have had massive issues with the Higher Power thing. You see i was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness. My issues with the religion began with my whole concept of God, i began to not believe in one, so in turn my faith was lost. This was about 15 years ago.
During that time i have had no religious issues, if i didn't believe in God why would i have concerns on my religion. In coming to AA i did not know that God or a Higher Power had anything to do with the program. Once i realised this i was in a mess. I hadn't even had to think about God for close on 15 years, i knew i would have to go back and address my concerns with the religion i once claimed as my own. My concern though was that i had no belief in a Biblical God and didn't want one.
So far it has took me 8 months to come to a limited understanding of my higher power.
The following is what i have been asked to repost in this section, i hope it helps some who have similar issues.........
I have had issues with the HP thing too, i started a thread on here entitled "can an atheist work the 12 steps", there was loads of good info on there which helped me, i'd suggest you take a look at it.
Moving on from there i have issues with praying as i do not believe in an external God. I believe that maybe there is a spirit of the universe, but not a God that has to be worshipped and prayed to.
I do believe however that i have a spiritual side to me that needs to be developed, i feel that side of me kicking in when i see a beautiful landscape or in an art gallery or listening to classical music for instance.
I believe i can develop this spiritual side to me by meditation rather than prayer. In my view prayer is another form of meditation, but that's my view.
For me it is something deep inside of me, may be if i develop it, it can be in touch with all those things in the universe that we do not understand, which in my view is a higher power.
So to sum up, that spiritual side to me that is somewhere deep inside is what's in touch with a higher power. That is what i need to concentrate on when people say leave it to your higher power. Sounds complicated but it's simple to me.
Another higher power i have is the AA group itself. Recently this hit me after i had missed three weeks of meetings due to a vacation. I went to a meeting out of my area, no one knew me, but instantly i felt at home and at peace within myself. This to me is GOD (Group Of Drunks), they make me feel at peace.
So for me i have two higher powers, 1) my spiritual side 2) the people in AA
Find what works for you, just because someone experienced in AA tells you to pray to a conventional God doesn't mean they are correct in your individual case.
So for me no need for the bible, no need for a conventional God. But hey that's just me.
Paul
Since i came to AA i have had massive issues with the Higher Power thing. You see i was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness. My issues with the religion began with my whole concept of God, i began to not believe in one, so in turn my faith was lost. This was about 15 years ago.
During that time i have had no religious issues, if i didn't believe in God why would i have concerns on my religion. In coming to AA i did not know that God or a Higher Power had anything to do with the program. Once i realised this i was in a mess. I hadn't even had to think about God for close on 15 years, i knew i would have to go back and address my concerns with the religion i once claimed as my own. My concern though was that i had no belief in a Biblical God and didn't want one.
So far it has took me 8 months to come to a limited understanding of my higher power.
The following is what i have been asked to repost in this section, i hope it helps some who have similar issues.........
I have had issues with the HP thing too, i started a thread on here entitled "can an atheist work the 12 steps", there was loads of good info on there which helped me, i'd suggest you take a look at it.
Moving on from there i have issues with praying as i do not believe in an external God. I believe that maybe there is a spirit of the universe, but not a God that has to be worshipped and prayed to.
I do believe however that i have a spiritual side to me that needs to be developed, i feel that side of me kicking in when i see a beautiful landscape or in an art gallery or listening to classical music for instance.
I believe i can develop this spiritual side to me by meditation rather than prayer. In my view prayer is another form of meditation, but that's my view.
For me it is something deep inside of me, may be if i develop it, it can be in touch with all those things in the universe that we do not understand, which in my view is a higher power.
So to sum up, that spiritual side to me that is somewhere deep inside is what's in touch with a higher power. That is what i need to concentrate on when people say leave it to your higher power. Sounds complicated but it's simple to me.
Another higher power i have is the AA group itself. Recently this hit me after i had missed three weeks of meetings due to a vacation. I went to a meeting out of my area, no one knew me, but instantly i felt at home and at peace within myself. This to me is GOD (Group Of Drunks), they make me feel at peace.
So for me i have two higher powers, 1) my spiritual side 2) the people in AA
Find what works for you, just because someone experienced in AA tells you to pray to a conventional God doesn't mean they are correct in your individual case.
So for me no need for the bible, no need for a conventional God. But hey that's just me.
Paul
