Archive for the ‘Disbelief’ tag
He’s admitted it..what do I do now?
In tears and after a couple of beers, he told me over the phone last night, that he has a problem. He said it's so clear when he's been drinking, but when he's sober he just wants to put the blame on everyone else. He's embarrassed and in disbelief he's even spoken those words. It's hard for him to understand (and me too) and he's confused. I said something about AA, but immediately he's worried about people finding out. He feels like a loser, a failure, ect. He said he misses me and needs my support. (He really wants me to come back home. He thinks that it would be extra motivation for him. I don't think it's a wise idea.) My question is, what do I do next? How do I support him? I don't want to push AA down his throat. I suggested I come over and we do dinner some evenings....just to take his mind off of doing other things and for us to spend time together. I just don't want to ruin this breakthrough.
The Power and Progression of Prayer in Recovery
To qualify all of this, I am not subscribed to any organized religion. Although I believe there is much value in the teachings of all religions, I don't like God as I understand him to have rules imposed by others. That is one of the beautiful things about 12 step programs to me, I can relate to a God of my understanding.
With that said, prayer has become a very important part of my recovery. It didn't happen overnight, and I still have a long way to go. Going from cursing God every morning for waking me up another day, to thanking him for the same reason is a humbling thing. What's interesting to me, is how my prayer life has progressed throughout my recovery. That includes my previous unsuccessful attempts.
I started out like most probably do, praying in disbelief. Was there really a God? If there was why did he care about me after all the terrible things I had done? Most of all, why would he want to help me? Those feelings slowly passed, as I saw the intrinsic benefits of prayer. I didn't want to believe, I really didn't. It all started with those foxhole prayers during my addiction, "God please help me", "Get me out of this, I swear I'll never do it again" and so forth. One day that please help me prayer was answered, and my life was never the same.
As things have progressed my prayers have become more complex. More thought goes into them. First I thank God for keeping me clean and sober that day, then I continue into other prayers. Prayers for my own well being, for those I love and care about, and strangely enough for those I hold resentments against. That was a tough one.
I thought this would be a good place to share thoughts and opinions on prayer. For or against, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and experience. What I am really interested in is the prayers that my fellow addicts use for the problems that may arise. I have many of them, but this post is long enough so I'll share them as we go. The serenity prayer and the other step prayers are of course classic and integral, but that's not really what I am getting at. Everyone seems to have their own conception of prayer and God, and that's the main thing I'd love to hear about. This could be a good resource for newcomers to recovery, as well as something valuable for people with tons of time. We all can learn from each other. If you're not interested just move on no problem, but I am very interested and it would be great to hear other's opinions, and questions, about prayer and recovery. Sorry to ramble and thanks in advance for your thoughts.
With that said, prayer has become a very important part of my recovery. It didn't happen overnight, and I still have a long way to go. Going from cursing God every morning for waking me up another day, to thanking him for the same reason is a humbling thing. What's interesting to me, is how my prayer life has progressed throughout my recovery. That includes my previous unsuccessful attempts.
I started out like most probably do, praying in disbelief. Was there really a God? If there was why did he care about me after all the terrible things I had done? Most of all, why would he want to help me? Those feelings slowly passed, as I saw the intrinsic benefits of prayer. I didn't want to believe, I really didn't. It all started with those foxhole prayers during my addiction, "God please help me", "Get me out of this, I swear I'll never do it again" and so forth. One day that please help me prayer was answered, and my life was never the same.
As things have progressed my prayers have become more complex. More thought goes into them. First I thank God for keeping me clean and sober that day, then I continue into other prayers. Prayers for my own well being, for those I love and care about, and strangely enough for those I hold resentments against. That was a tough one.
I thought this would be a good place to share thoughts and opinions on prayer. For or against, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and experience. What I am really interested in is the prayers that my fellow addicts use for the problems that may arise. I have many of them, but this post is long enough so I'll share them as we go. The serenity prayer and the other step prayers are of course classic and integral, but that's not really what I am getting at. Everyone seems to have their own conception of prayer and God, and that's the main thing I'd love to hear about. This could be a good resource for newcomers to recovery, as well as something valuable for people with tons of time. We all can learn from each other. If you're not interested just move on no problem, but I am very interested and it would be great to hear other's opinions, and questions, about prayer and recovery. Sorry to ramble and thanks in advance for your thoughts.
My story :(
Hi friends!!
I think some of you already read my story at another thread..
First of all thank you for being there. This message board rules!!
I wanted to share my story and vent a little. These have been the toughest weeks I have lived and all your words are great support.
I fell in love as I have never before with this guy who was really sweet and loving (HAH!). He was incredible. I lived with my best girlfriend and had a job I liked, although it was very very stressful. Those were simpler, happier times.
This guy got a job opportunity in another city and he asked me if I would follow him.. after a month I got the chance to join the same company, we lived together with another one of his friends. We were very very happy about this chance.
One weekend we went to a beach and got drunk, at night he started making all these unbelievably hurtful comments about things I have shared to him in confidence. I usually never cry infront of anyone, not even him. Well I just started crying right away in disbelief. It came to me as a shock and a surprise that he could be so cruel. There were many times that we shared our hurt and cried and cried hugging each other until dawn.. we were really close. His mother died some years ago (I believe that was the start of his drinking spree) and I have also gone through tough stuff. He was also my best friend, you know.
Of course later he apologized and said he would never do it again(another HAH!). We cried all night. At one point he said I did not deserve this and that I had to promise to him I was going to be happy. "Even without me" he said. Yeah because for him it is easier I make the dirty work of moving on and he cannot make an effort to change and keep me!! DAMN!!
The second discussion was when he started drinking with the roomate, at first I was cool about it, then 3, 4, 5, 6 AM and he was still there, drinking... I got angry and he said that if something bothered me I should say it... he was right.
But then he started saying that he had already written a letter to me, as he knew this was going to be over, that he was going to take "a very lonely path only he understands" (oh yeah) and I said "well.. if you are so sure about it then what are you waiting for with me?" and he said "yes perhaps this is the moment to break up". Wow. By then it was already 8AM so I just went out the place crying, walked and talked to my mom.... that was the day I was moving out with him to this place we had already paid for... of course he woke up as people were coming from his things and he hadn't any cash available so he even had the nerve to ask me for cash... it was very stressful.
Later on he said he did not remember much and that maybe being with me and finding that "unknown" stuff did not have to be separate... I was very angry he could just... change his mind...
The third discussion was when he was extremely drunk after one of his friend's wedding. I had to talk a lot so he could give me the keys so I could drive (not the first time). When we arrived to my place he started babbling and also kind of breaking up with me. Of course we never really talked, just slept and had sex and pretended nothing happened the next day. Next day my mom prepared food for us and he was trembling...
Many times he called me drunk stating how much he loved me, missed me, etc. I wonder why I did not see the signs before? As I also like partying I just thought he was having fun, but did not know the extent of it until I lived together with him.
After going to a therapist I decided to leave. When I arrived I was angry and when I saw him his breath smelled of beer. It was tuesday afternoon. I just got really sad, you know? He was just like "well everything has its time.. you should not depend that much in other people" Wow. He asked for a hug. I walked away.
I think some of you already read my story at another thread..
First of all thank you for being there. This message board rules!!
I wanted to share my story and vent a little. These have been the toughest weeks I have lived and all your words are great support.
I fell in love as I have never before with this guy who was really sweet and loving (HAH!). He was incredible. I lived with my best girlfriend and had a job I liked, although it was very very stressful. Those were simpler, happier times.
This guy got a job opportunity in another city and he asked me if I would follow him.. after a month I got the chance to join the same company, we lived together with another one of his friends. We were very very happy about this chance.
One weekend we went to a beach and got drunk, at night he started making all these unbelievably hurtful comments about things I have shared to him in confidence. I usually never cry infront of anyone, not even him. Well I just started crying right away in disbelief. It came to me as a shock and a surprise that he could be so cruel. There were many times that we shared our hurt and cried and cried hugging each other until dawn.. we were really close. His mother died some years ago (I believe that was the start of his drinking spree) and I have also gone through tough stuff. He was also my best friend, you know.
Of course later he apologized and said he would never do it again(another HAH!). We cried all night. At one point he said I did not deserve this and that I had to promise to him I was going to be happy. "Even without me" he said. Yeah because for him it is easier I make the dirty work of moving on and he cannot make an effort to change and keep me!! DAMN!!
The second discussion was when he started drinking with the roomate, at first I was cool about it, then 3, 4, 5, 6 AM and he was still there, drinking... I got angry and he said that if something bothered me I should say it... he was right.
But then he started saying that he had already written a letter to me, as he knew this was going to be over, that he was going to take "a very lonely path only he understands" (oh yeah) and I said "well.. if you are so sure about it then what are you waiting for with me?" and he said "yes perhaps this is the moment to break up". Wow. By then it was already 8AM so I just went out the place crying, walked and talked to my mom.... that was the day I was moving out with him to this place we had already paid for... of course he woke up as people were coming from his things and he hadn't any cash available so he even had the nerve to ask me for cash... it was very stressful.
Later on he said he did not remember much and that maybe being with me and finding that "unknown" stuff did not have to be separate... I was very angry he could just... change his mind...
The third discussion was when he was extremely drunk after one of his friend's wedding. I had to talk a lot so he could give me the keys so I could drive (not the first time). When we arrived to my place he started babbling and also kind of breaking up with me. Of course we never really talked, just slept and had sex and pretended nothing happened the next day. Next day my mom prepared food for us and he was trembling...
Many times he called me drunk stating how much he loved me, missed me, etc. I wonder why I did not see the signs before? As I also like partying I just thought he was having fun, but did not know the extent of it until I lived together with him.
After going to a therapist I decided to leave. When I arrived I was angry and when I saw him his breath smelled of beer. It was tuesday afternoon. I just got really sad, you know? He was just like "well everything has its time.. you should not depend that much in other people" Wow. He asked for a hug. I walked away.
What would you have done?
I haven't been on in a while but have been lurking. I won't bore you with the details of why I came here in the beginning. but I will start by saying that I have had zero contact with the XABF for over a year. I am better with NC than I thought I would be. I have grown and realized a lot of things including how insidious alcoholism is, that I can't change the thoughts and behavior of others and that I can't expect an A to care about me.
Well last week I was sitting here watching tv. He was the last thing on my mind. The phone rang and I heard his voice. I listened for a second in disbelief and wasn't about to pick up. Then he started to sound shaky and his voice was cracking. I picked up and said "why are you calling after a year? and he said he was doing very badly and that he was sitting in the shed with a .22 and was thinking about suicide.
I felt like I was protected enough to hear him out so I said talk and I will listen. I was fine and did not get emotional during the time we talked. I told him that he knew what he needed to do. I said things are the way they are for you because you made them that way..he agreed but it doesn't matter because he doesn't really see
. I chose to speak to him because there was that 1% of me that feared he might do something but the other 99% thought it was just more of the same old crap.
He spewed all the same old "i love you" I said "there will always be a place in my heart for you but i don't really know where that place is. I said "If you get help someday and you are sober for a year and THEN you still think you "love" me then you can come and tell me and I might listen.
He said "but I did tell you before when I was sober" I said "NOOOO not when you are just not drunk because you haven't started drinking for the day..when you are clean and sober and have an idea of reality. He didn't get it. He said he was going to a rehab...I do not believe him. He has an alcoholic girlfriend who doesn't think either one of them has a problem. It won't work.
He told me he is going to come out of rehab looking great because he will have worked out every day. He also said he is going to be able to drink on the weekends. basically that they will TEACH him how...so yeah...his brain is gone.
I'm not mad that I talked to him because it solidified the fact that they just get worse and it helped me to see how far I have come. He started to cry at the end and I got a little sad but I said there are always going to be things that sting and that's just the way it is.
It will most likely be a year before he tries again. Right now I can assure you that he thinks I want him back...he lives in a fantasy world and his sister said she can't figure out how he twists things the way he does. I told her that's what addicts do.
Well last week I was sitting here watching tv. He was the last thing on my mind. The phone rang and I heard his voice. I listened for a second in disbelief and wasn't about to pick up. Then he started to sound shaky and his voice was cracking. I picked up and said "why are you calling after a year? and he said he was doing very badly and that he was sitting in the shed with a .22 and was thinking about suicide.
I felt like I was protected enough to hear him out so I said talk and I will listen. I was fine and did not get emotional during the time we talked. I told him that he knew what he needed to do. I said things are the way they are for you because you made them that way..he agreed but it doesn't matter because he doesn't really see
. I chose to speak to him because there was that 1% of me that feared he might do something but the other 99% thought it was just more of the same old crap.
He spewed all the same old "i love you" I said "there will always be a place in my heart for you but i don't really know where that place is. I said "If you get help someday and you are sober for a year and THEN you still think you "love" me then you can come and tell me and I might listen.
He said "but I did tell you before when I was sober" I said "NOOOO not when you are just not drunk because you haven't started drinking for the day..when you are clean and sober and have an idea of reality. He didn't get it. He said he was going to a rehab...I do not believe him. He has an alcoholic girlfriend who doesn't think either one of them has a problem. It won't work.
He told me he is going to come out of rehab looking great because he will have worked out every day. He also said he is going to be able to drink on the weekends. basically that they will TEACH him how...so yeah...his brain is gone.
I'm not mad that I talked to him because it solidified the fact that they just get worse and it helped me to see how far I have come. He started to cry at the end and I got a little sad but I said there are always going to be things that sting and that's just the way it is.
It will most likely be a year before he tries again. Right now I can assure you that he thinks I want him back...he lives in a fantasy world and his sister said she can't figure out how he twists things the way he does. I told her that's what addicts do.
Speed bump on the recovery road…
I left my AH almost one year ago; began posting reading on SR and attending Alanon a short time after that. No doubts about ending that relationship; I did the dance with him for about four months before I left of giving him second, third etc. chances – but clearly (and with much disbelief) realized that he wasn’t doing anything to change. So, I left with my DD and have not reconsidered my decision, ever. I filed for divorce in January, but we have not gone to court yet so technically we are still married.
We lived in a rural area; and when I left I also left behind almost my entire social network. All my former friends and neighbors have rushed in to continue to enable my X; as I am the evil one for abandoning the poor helpless man (he is disabled). Even my family seemed to have been more supportive of him than me. And I left our dream home that I had poured my heart into decorating and landscaping over the last 20 years.
I was hurting and felt very betrayed. It was winter time, I isolated somewhat during the cold and snow. I have never been out-going and have trouble making friends. After a few months I moved to a small town near my X; to get back into my DDÂ’s school district and nearer to her friends. ItÂ’s a bedroom community to the larger city where I work; about 30 min. away. That complicates socializing, because once I get home, entertainment options are limited; and I donÂ’t want to stay in town and leave my DD home alone.
Springtime came, and it had been about six months since I left. I felt I was ready to try dating, so I joined an online dating site. The responses were sort of overwhelming, and a huge boost to my ego and self confidence. I had lots of good dates, some really bad dates, but didnÂ’t take any of it too seriously and was having a good time. Meanwhile, I met some of my new neighbors who, as the weather turned warmer, began to gather regularly at my next-door neighborÂ’s house and socialize (i.e. drink beer). It felt so good to start to make friends in my new home and to find a new social network.
My neighbor’s best friend was there often, even though he lives in the larger city. Long story short – he pursued me and our friends did a little matchmaking and we eventually started a romantic relationship. He “broke up” with his girlfriend to go out with me. That concerned me some; but felt that his friends knew the situation better than I did and they assured me that there was no reason to be worried. I also had observed how much time he spent at my neighbor’s – and the girlfriend was NEVER with him.
Of course this all leads up to the problem – he and “girlfriend” had bought a house together. She was going to move out, but decided to use that to pressure him to stay with her. She gave him an ultimatum to work on their relationship or sell the house. He gave in; and broke up with me. But, can we still be friends? If I say no, I am afraid I will lose all my friends and my social network – AGAIN. If I say yes I will be happy to still be able to talk to him, but -- frankly will really miss having the romantic relationship.
So I said yes. And my sponsor kicked me in my a$$ and in no uncertain terms said absolutely, positively do not have a friendship with him. He came over last night on his way home from work; and I was going to tell him; and I couldn’t do it. I can’t do it. Just thinking about it sends me into a panic. I can’t give up this relationship; that thought is more upsetting than leaving my AH (married for 25 years!!!). I know this is a sign of some kind of character defect – but I don’t know what and I am nowhere near ready to have it removed. And I’m also stressing about telling my sponsor that I couldn’t do it.
So, I am telling you all about it. Partly just to finally write it all out, and also to get more insight from all of you who are so much farther along than me. . . .
We lived in a rural area; and when I left I also left behind almost my entire social network. All my former friends and neighbors have rushed in to continue to enable my X; as I am the evil one for abandoning the poor helpless man (he is disabled). Even my family seemed to have been more supportive of him than me. And I left our dream home that I had poured my heart into decorating and landscaping over the last 20 years.
I was hurting and felt very betrayed. It was winter time, I isolated somewhat during the cold and snow. I have never been out-going and have trouble making friends. After a few months I moved to a small town near my X; to get back into my DDÂ’s school district and nearer to her friends. ItÂ’s a bedroom community to the larger city where I work; about 30 min. away. That complicates socializing, because once I get home, entertainment options are limited; and I donÂ’t want to stay in town and leave my DD home alone.
Springtime came, and it had been about six months since I left. I felt I was ready to try dating, so I joined an online dating site. The responses were sort of overwhelming, and a huge boost to my ego and self confidence. I had lots of good dates, some really bad dates, but didnÂ’t take any of it too seriously and was having a good time. Meanwhile, I met some of my new neighbors who, as the weather turned warmer, began to gather regularly at my next-door neighborÂ’s house and socialize (i.e. drink beer). It felt so good to start to make friends in my new home and to find a new social network.
My neighbor’s best friend was there often, even though he lives in the larger city. Long story short – he pursued me and our friends did a little matchmaking and we eventually started a romantic relationship. He “broke up” with his girlfriend to go out with me. That concerned me some; but felt that his friends knew the situation better than I did and they assured me that there was no reason to be worried. I also had observed how much time he spent at my neighbor’s – and the girlfriend was NEVER with him.
Of course this all leads up to the problem – he and “girlfriend” had bought a house together. She was going to move out, but decided to use that to pressure him to stay with her. She gave him an ultimatum to work on their relationship or sell the house. He gave in; and broke up with me. But, can we still be friends? If I say no, I am afraid I will lose all my friends and my social network – AGAIN. If I say yes I will be happy to still be able to talk to him, but -- frankly will really miss having the romantic relationship.
So I said yes. And my sponsor kicked me in my a$$ and in no uncertain terms said absolutely, positively do not have a friendship with him. He came over last night on his way home from work; and I was going to tell him; and I couldn’t do it. I can’t do it. Just thinking about it sends me into a panic. I can’t give up this relationship; that thought is more upsetting than leaving my AH (married for 25 years!!!). I know this is a sign of some kind of character defect – but I don’t know what and I am nowhere near ready to have it removed. And I’m also stressing about telling my sponsor that I couldn’t do it.
So, I am telling you all about it. Partly just to finally write it all out, and also to get more insight from all of you who are so much farther along than me. . . .
Total disbelief.
I haven't spoken to my parents for about ten years, maybe more after they tried to hide my youngest brother's suicide attempt from me after I'd moved out. These people were awful to me and my brothers. Beatings were the norm, and my mother even stabbed my bedroom door with a knife to scare me when I was a child. They put me down everyday and let me know I was unwanted. I made the mistake of trying to reconnect with my father about 7 years ago and he was totally psycho, calling an ingrate, etc. Then he'd cry, then yell at me some more. Then I heard he was teaching kids in church to play guitar. He NEVER did that with me. He beat me black and blue and once I even had to cover my arms and legs in gym class for two weeks so nobody would see the bloody marks and bruises, and see how much even my own parents hated me, as did everyone in school. Everyday was a nightmare. And now I see he has a music page in the internet. I always hoped that he would somehow see what he did was wrong- my mother is hopeless, she is a true sadist and sociopath. She beat us, she beat our pets... Locked me in my room for hours. Lied to me to screw with my head. Now my father's just living his life and playing his stupid songs and had the NERVE to list himself as a proud parent on his profile, with three kids who haven't spoken to them in years, and the NERVE to list himself as a christian!!!! I CAN"T TAKE IT!:c004::headbange I have so many unanswered questions, I have NO idea who I am because these people eradicated my being before I had a chance to exist! I have no sense of my history, what I was like as a kid, NO other close family members who can tell me anything- it's as if I don't exist. I have no frame of reference. And he's just "La dee da, I think I'll post a song today"... I can't try anymore. I am too nuerotic. I am too damaged. I can't wrap my head around the cruelty. I just wish I would have an accident or something and it would all go away. How can people be so insensitive, so cruel? I can't relate to anybody because of this:bigcry
Forgiveness, and/or Do I have to? Revisited.
Hi All,
I read CMC's thread on Do I have to? Regarding forgiving others. I've also read the Bible passage he mentioned as well. I have been struggling with this very thing for a couple of months now.
I know I need to forgive my wife for wanting a divorce. I know it and I know my part in all of it. I know that I need to forgive myself and her. I can be on my own and think and can put it all into proper perspective and think I'm close to succeeding and then I fail. Invariably, I fail.
I have not yet learned to accept our 22 year old relationship ending. I find myself still in disbelief that all of this is happening, and it's been SEVEN months in the making and I simply still can't believe we're ending... we were supposed to be forever. Forever.
We are still in the same house together, thanks to our respective lawyers and it makes is so hard to get past all of this. I see her... how easy this is for her, how matter of fact it all is... and I get angry, a deep wounded anger and I can't let it go, I try mightily and I pray on it daily. I have days that I think I'm past it but invariably I get caught up in it again. I feel like a Hamster running on that wheel, round and round but getting nowhere.
Well what's the point of all of this? Well it's making me feel better to post this and get it all out there. Secondly if anyone can help me with this whether through advice or maybe some more scripture, I would greatly appreciate it. P.S. On the upside I'm still sober through all of this!
Wishing you all a good day,
John
I read CMC's thread on Do I have to? Regarding forgiving others. I've also read the Bible passage he mentioned as well. I have been struggling with this very thing for a couple of months now.
I know I need to forgive my wife for wanting a divorce. I know it and I know my part in all of it. I know that I need to forgive myself and her. I can be on my own and think and can put it all into proper perspective and think I'm close to succeeding and then I fail. Invariably, I fail.
I have not yet learned to accept our 22 year old relationship ending. I find myself still in disbelief that all of this is happening, and it's been SEVEN months in the making and I simply still can't believe we're ending... we were supposed to be forever. Forever.
We are still in the same house together, thanks to our respective lawyers and it makes is so hard to get past all of this. I see her... how easy this is for her, how matter of fact it all is... and I get angry, a deep wounded anger and I can't let it go, I try mightily and I pray on it daily. I have days that I think I'm past it but invariably I get caught up in it again. I feel like a Hamster running on that wheel, round and round but getting nowhere.
Well what's the point of all of this? Well it's making me feel better to post this and get it all out there. Secondly if anyone can help me with this whether through advice or maybe some more scripture, I would greatly appreciate it. P.S. On the upside I'm still sober through all of this!
Wishing you all a good day,
John
